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#101 Phalanxman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:41 AM

This is one of my favorite things, because you're right, the corporations are 100% responsible for the number of part time vs full time jobs. President Obama isn't. Former president Bush isn't. Just the corporations.

I don't want to turn this into a debate, but that just simply isn't true. Capitalism is amoral. I believe the corporations are simply trying to make the best business decisions. As it becomes less and less profitable to pay a living wage, it will become less and less common. Corporations are dickish, however you can't expect them to make bad business decisions because they should pay a living wage.

 

All that aside, It is my personal belief that Obamacare was formulated to create a permanent peasant class. 


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We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!


#102 Vicious Parker

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

I don't want to turn this into a debate, but that just simply isn't true. Capitalism is amoral. I believe the corporations are simply trying to make the best business decisions. As it becomes less and less profitable to pay a living wage, it will become less and less common. Corporations are dickish, however you can't expect them to make bad business decisions because they should pay a living wage.

I actually wasn't referring  to a living wage, minimum wage, or even trying to paint capitalism as immoral. I was simply saying that corporations decide how many full time vs. part time jobs they have, and the the past decade has seen a decline in full time employment. Although the sharpest drop has been in the past 3 or 4 years.


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#103 Monkeydog

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:50 AM

I don't want to turn this into a debate, but that just simply isn't true. Capitalism is amoral. I believe the corporations are simply trying to make the best business decisions. As it becomes less and less profitable to pay a living wage, it will become less and less common. Corporations are dickish, however you can't expect them to make bad business decisions because they should pay a living wage.

If corporations can't even provide a decent wage and benefits they must already be making enough bad business decisions.

 

There's plenty of huge businesses (Starbucks, Costco, Apple) that go above and beyond what most places do and they seem to be doing more than fine.


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#104 Phalanxman

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

I actually wasn't referring  to a living wage, minimum wage, or even trying to paint capitalism as immoral. I was simply saying that corporations decide how many full time vs. part time jobs they have, and the the past decade has seen a decline in full time employment. Although the sharpest drop has been in the past 3 or 4 years.

I approve of this. Lol.

 

If corporations can't even provide a decent wage and benefits they must already be making enough bad business decisions.

 

There's plenty of huge businesses (Starbucks, Costco, Apple) that go above and beyond what most places do and they seem to be doing more than fine.

This is kind of interesting to me. I know someone that works for Starbucks and I would say yes they do go above and beyond and I'm really not sure how they do it because I just don't know much about that company. I know that Apple tries to paint a pristine picture of themselves in America by providing cosy jobs to Americans, while they have slave labor (basically) in China that is so bad that they have to put safety nets around their factories so that people can't commit suicide by jumping off. I don't know a thing about Costco either.


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We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!


#105 Monkeydog

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

I think the deal with Starbucks is the cost of their drinks. They know there is a demand for their drinks so that allows them to charge a premium for it in order to pay for their employees.

 

I'd go more into my depth on the theories and terribleness of Starbucks but I'm at my Cool Job that pays me way more than Starbucks ever did and saved me from its evil clutches. 


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#106 Shoulder Devil

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

This is one of my favorite things, because you're right, the corporations are 100% responsible for the number of part time vs full time jobs. President Obama isn't. Former president Bush isn't. Just the corporations.

 

God yes. I'm all for blaming the Presidents when it's something they actually had (or have) control over, but when it's just "this shit happened while you were in office," it's absurd. Gas prices are the usual griping point, even though the only control a President really has over them is that they might, MIGHT decide to temporarily waive the federal tax on gasoline (which would hurt us more in the long run). But then gas prices would still be free to do whatever the fuck they want, since our government isn't the one that sets the prices.

Though for the part time job stuff, I feel like Reagan's administration deserves at least some of the blame. He made it clear the entire time he was going to let corporations do whatever the fuck they want, and the least he could have done was give them a slap on the wrist and publicly say "oi, this isn't exactly good behavior." 


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#107 Shoulder Devil

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:16 PM

If corporations can't even provide a decent wage and benefits they must already be making enough bad business decisions.


Quoted for truth.

The SECOND you're somehow not making enough money to afford paying the people who got you into the position you're in a living wage, you've already fucked up. And, spoiler alert, most of these corporations CAN do this. They just don't want to, because then they'll have to declare their profits to be smaller.

Emphasis on "profits" here, because that's the amount leftover in the green after they've covered all their costs. In fact, 95% of the employers who have 40% or better of their help on minimum wage have been posting profit numbers at such a level that they COULD afford to pay higher wages. They just don't.


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"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it." -Voltaire


#108 Xteven Xavier

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:06 AM

They wouldn't even need to declare their Profits smaller if they weren't greedy. The CEO of Costco only Pays himself like 400-500k A Year and his emloyees on average make about 15 dollars an hour.

 

Last Year Mcdonald's CEO Gave himself a 5 million dollar raise because the profits were so good.


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#109 Phalanxman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:30 AM

Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys know why there is this trend?


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We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!


#110 kspr

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:45 PM

the more that they get, the less the shareholders have for themselves.


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#111 Shoulder Devil

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:31 PM

Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys know why there is this trend?

 

They can get away with it, and it's cheaper?

Not really going to be much in the way of insight, here. It also tends to trap the worker into a perpetual state of job uncertainty, but the possibility of being hired on a permanent basis (and full time at that) keeps them around, however slim it may be. And it usually is pretty slim.

 

Though I know at Wal-Mart for stocking, it's also because of a high rate of walk-offs. Because it's laborious work, and the pay doesn't match the amount of strain you put on yourself doing the job. So, because they don't want to hire enough people to do the job properly (which is a huge reason behind Wal-Mart's slide over the years, by the way), you wind up saddled with a heavy workload, for highly physical work, for damn near bottom of the barrel pay. And most people can't stand it. Even on the graveyard shift where we made an extra dollar an hour, I did not know a single person who actually looked forward to going to work. You didn't run into that until you started hitting management positions, since they typically got paid more and had a lower [physical] workload. And even then I wouldn't call them many of them "happy" about it.


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#112 Phalanxman

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 04:57 PM

Hm. I was just curious about what you guys thought.


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We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far and no further!


#113 Stars

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:39 PM

Someone commented to me once that a company's board of directors sets the CEO's pay, and the CEO in turn sets their pay, resulting in an "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" situation.
Not sure how accurate that is, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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#114 Vicious Parker

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys know why there is this trend?

A quick and unscientific google search doesn't really turn up a decent answer. One article mentioned Obamacare (though they did refer to it as the "affordable health care act."), and how it apparently gives incentives to employers who keep their number of full time employees under 50. My current employer seems to anecdotaly confirm this. They recently cut all part time worker hours, so that no part time employees are now ever scheduled more than 29 hours per week, and are not allowed to pick up any shifts that might put them over this threshold. They don't deny that it's because if employees average more than 29 hours, they are required to receive benefits which would cut in to the company's bottom line. My point of view on it is very cynical, but they are not the only employer who is doing this.

 

My personal thoughts are based only on speculation. I admit that my research in to this is minimal at best. But it seems that large employers want to essentially reinstate slave labor. They pay enough to make sure their slaves have room and board, but keeping them as part time helps make sure that the slaves will be ready to work whenever the master calls (because they need the money), and the master never has to do anything more than the bare minimum required by law. The fact that Obamacare is giving employers incentives to keep employees part time, and to prevent them from getting benefits, is just a convenient coincidence that employers are using as an excuse to justify their actions.

 

 

 

On a side note, Streets, have a +1 for leading a conversation with an open ended question rather than a blunt force opinionated statement. You're doing it right.


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The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead.

-Mr. Peanutbutter


#115 Monkeydog

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:27 PM

I love how this topic is rarely on topic.


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#116 matrim

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:12 PM

It's when I read these posts I'm sortof glad I didn't move to the US.
I plan on accumulating some more experiance here in Sweden, and if things ever go sour between me and my GF, I might make the transfer at that time since I can get hopefully get a company to hire me for my skills and thus they can handle everything with the visa and I will be guarantéed 100% full time service ^_^


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-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Yes private, thats exactly it. War's over, we won.
Turns out you're the big hero and we're gonna hold a parade in your honor.
I get to drive the float, and Simmons here IS IN CHARGE OF CONFETTI!!!
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_


#117 Donkeymog

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:18 AM

I hear Sweden is awesome. My best friend frequently tours Scandinavia with his folk band and he has nothing but nice things to say. Oh, except he hates Swedish food, too salty apparently.


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I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime...


#118 Xteven Xavier

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:22 AM

Well matrim, Let me tell you with most companies it's not about what you  know, It's all about who you know. So at that time maybe one of us will be able to get you a job.


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#119 Shoulder Devil

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 12:02 PM

My personal thoughts are based only on speculation. I admit that my research in to this is minimal at best. But it seems that large employers want to essentially reinstate slave labor. They pay enough to make sure their slaves have room and board, but keeping them as part time helps make sure that the slaves will be ready to work whenever the master calls (because they need the money), and the master never has to do anything more than the bare minimum required by law. The fact that Obamacare is giving employers incentives to keep employees part time, and to prevent them from getting benefits, is just a convenient coincidence that employers are using as an excuse to justify their actions.

 

Yes and no, really. The "incentive" here is just the threat that if they have more than 50 full time workers, they have to provide their own insurance that must meet, at minimum, the same requirements as those outlined under Obamacare / the Affordable Healthcare Act. In most cases (and definitely in the case of Wal-mart), the existing insurance plan is so bare bones that it does not meet those requirements. As such, they make the decision to cut hours so that they have fewer full-time workers, thus allowing them to avoid having to restructure and improve their own insurance plan.

Which is actually several shades of ironic, once you sit down and think about it. Overwhelmingly, these are the companies that said the government should stay out their business, they know how to provide for their own workers, etc. And now that it's in place, giving them the opportunity to really provide for their own workers, their response is to abandon their previous efforts entirely and go with a "let the government handle it" approach to the situation. Not to mention the punishment for not taking care of your workers is now being used as an excuse to do just that.


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"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it." -Voltaire


#120 matrim

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:55 AM

Well matrim, Let me tell you with most companies it's not about what you  know, It's all about who you know. So at that time maybe one of us will be able to get you a job.


Perhaps so, the only higher up people I know are in the gambeling business.

And since USA is very isolated in online gambeling from the rest of the world this kinda cuts me off.

 

However I might be able to get some good words in with the Blizzard people.

They have cantacted me twice with offers. Perhaps I can get them to hire me for one of the US offices instead of the one in France. Could be a possibility


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-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Yes private, thats exactly it. War's over, we won.
Turns out you're the big hero and we're gonna hold a parade in your honor.
I get to drive the float, and Simmons here IS IN CHARGE OF CONFETTI!!!
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_





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