252 replies to this topic

[Amethyst]

Come to think of it, it's pretty insecure of Yahweh to demand weekly worship.

[INeedUrTurnips]

Oho it's time for someone who hasn't posted in forever and was only here for a week and only knows one person here to contribute for no reason.

What everything boils down to is what you find meaning in. I am among the damned heathens, I am an atheist, I am most comfortable finding meaning within logic. Resonator finds meaning in things he cannot prove, which is okay with me, even if it is something I don't believe in (novel concept.)

What isn't okay with me is Resonator thinking that because he is able to find meaning in the abstract that he is better than everyone else. This Oneness he speaks of, for instance. At some point in his life, he felt a kindling of emotion because of God. He liked it. And it's very understandable. Here's why:

1) The happy-go-lucky rhetoric of his religion that he so deeply internalized (to the point of being able to spew it back out) gives one a sense of worth for merely believing that something that is simultaneously intangible and ever-present exsists without evidence to prove it.

2) Many other people like it. It is human instinct to conform.

3) The inflation of ego caused by deluding oneself into thinking that one is better then everyone else. Egomaniacal is the word.

I find meaning in logic. Logic is based in validity. All you need for logic to work is to believe that there is valid and there is not valid. For example, two plus two does not equal five. If two plus two equals four, then all else follows.

[Vicious Parker]

Hi Resonator. It's late, or early, and I feel like ranting, so I'm going to. Let's take a look at your last post (which you want us to believe will be your last). I'm going to start somewhere in the middle with something you said that bothers me:

The anger I observe only serves to bring you down, not so much in your cause as it is for yourself. It can accomplish nothing, and this topic will accomplish nothing if there is no real debate.

At what point wasn't this topic a debate? I mean seriously, topics about religion on the internet serve no other purpose than to spur useless debates. And this one has been a useless debate since the very first post. It has been religion vs. atheism, ahteism vs. atheism, and now people with some god damned sense vs. you and your amazing ability to not actually say anything in your posts, in spite of their word count.

I suppose what you really meant to say was, "this topic will accomplish nothing unless you concede to every one of my completely falsifiable arguments." I know, I know, that one doesn't flow quite as well. But sometimes we just have to fill in the blanks on our own.

Now, let's take this in baby steps.

Your nothing resembles that which represents the devil best.

Looking back on previous posts, I'm not sure who you're addressing here. My best guess is that you're referring to "atheism" as "nothing" and therefore you're addressing all of us. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

However, if this is the case, than this is a common problem that atheists have with religion. Why is it that people aren't allowed to disagree with certain aspects of religion, without it being labeled as the devil's work? That silly devil, always getting people in to trouble. What a convenient excuse he is.

So, please don't blame us for arguing with you kind Mr. Resonator sir, it was the devil what made us do it.

I will not burden you anymore after this, but I only wish that when you see the truth in action, you will remember what I have said.

What I like about this sentence is that basically you're telling us that everything you're saying is wrong. When we see the truth in action, we need to remember what you've said. Obviously we are not seeing the truth in action here, as we are unchanged. Does this make a liar out of you? No. Maybe not. My best guess is that you're just confused.

P.S. I'm going to go to sleep shortly after this post and I won't remember anything you've posted. Largely because it doesn't make any sense.

You think my God is power...

No I don't.

...even after I said he was the love, he was the compassion.

Oh that would explain the confusion. You said he was the love and the compasion, and immediately I thought he was the power for... some.. reason. Thanks for clearing that up.

You must seek within to see this truth, that both negative and positive exist here and you are BINDED to it. It is your entire reason for being. Throughout the years, you have all done much, for once you were separate, much as we are today.

I have no idea what this means. I will agree that we are indeed separated, but only by our inability to communicate. It's like talking to a person who speaks another language. You communicate mostly through sounds and pointing, and if you're lucky, you manage to figure out the words for yes and no before you accidentally agree to be sodomized. That's....that's never happened to me...

When you ascended to light, our race evolved to the spiritual plane, bodies becoming energy and forming that One. It lives within the light as though the light itself is a plane of existence, and now in this new millenium we are beginning our final transformation stage to that evolution.

...what? Ok, so ascension. Yeah. That's a great idea. One I actually kinda like. They dedicated a number of episodes of Stargate SG-1 to it. I liked those episodes.

Also I suppose you're not a creationist. Which is promising. You seem to believe in evolution of... some sort. That is unless you decided to take the perfectly factual idea of evolution and twist it around like everything else in your posts. Sneaky bastard.

If you do not choose to follow it...

I don't choose to follow it.

...make the mental choice and believe that you are one with God...

Wait, what? I have to do this anyway? Even if I choose not to follow it? Oh bugger all. What was the point in letting me choose, then?

...through all his trials thenceforth you will not become what you are destined to be.

Well that's not fair. I'm being forced to do something I don't want to do, but don't get the prize in spite of that? And who says God is fair and just?

Though I do get the distinct impression that I'm simply misreading what you're saying here. It's hard to tell. Even when your sentences appear to make sense, you have a tenancy to not actually say anything. It wreaks havoc on a poor, unenlightened soul like myself.

When you succeed at his tests, doing his will, the true spiritual journey begins, and you will experience as I have experienced and you will suffer the same fate as I to preach this among your brothers and sisters.

Shit. If I pass the tests, I have to be like you? Do these prizes get any better?

The anger I observe only serves to bring you down, not so much in your cause as it is for yourself. It can accomplish nothing, and this topic will accomplish nothing if there is no real debate. As I said, your anger will distort what comes from your mouth, and what comes from your mouth comes from your heart. Would you have me believe it is as black as ash? You most definitely control everything you do, but what you do as two rather than one is what makes the difference.

I may actually have to agree with you here: it is entirely possible and reasonable to think that our anger comes from the fact that we have not found god. I know that's why I'm debating here. That has been a cause for anger in my life, and in my arguments. I have not found god.

Because we have been lied to. Perhaps not about the existence of god. He's probably up there somewhere laughing at us for this forum thread. But because people we have trusted to lead us to god have lied to us. Have mislead us. Have taken parts of our lives and destroyed them. They have destroyed our trust, not only in them, but in god. If he is up there, he has a lot of work to do.

"Seeing the truth" is easy when you only see what you want to see, Resonator.

Let me ask you this, as a question I will never answer for you

That's very kind of you to ask us a question, and then to not answer it for us. I suppose it does sound very cool for you to tell us that the question is for us, but what a total waste of time. It just makes you sound wordy and pretentious.

Let me ask you this, as a question that I already know the answer to: Why don't you use any viable evidence when trying to prove the points you're trying to make?

If I told you that my same God told the Muslim prophets to fight in the name of God, so that this war we face may be waged to signal the end, would you believe?

Oh ok, a sign from revelations or something. If that's the case, then no, I wouldn't believe. What happened to the people who thought that the year 2000 would be the end of the world? What about the countless times that people have called some new technology the "sign of the beast"? And what about those crazy aztecs, or whoeverthehell, who believe that the world will end in 2012? War sucks ass, man, but it doesn't have anything to do with the end of the world.

Unless you're referring to a spiritual war or some crazy shit like that. In which case, get a grip.

Their battles have come and gone over years, but for one to come in such a time of transformation is very much a coincidence, is it not?

Looking back at history, when has the world not been in a time of transformation? So yes, it is very much a coincidence.

You may not see the connection, but then you might wonder if there was some truth in it.

Nope.

The answer lies within, not without.

Nope.

A question can also lead to a doorway to the path you seek.

....Nope.





Now here's what I think of you, Resonator. You, like us, are young and inexperienced. I obviously have no idea what your age is, so I'm basing that assumption purely on your presence here. This is an internet bulletin board dedicated to video games and shit, populated mostly by people in their late teens/early twenties (I'm well aware of my exception to this, thank you, everyone). In your posts you've quoted a goth band, and maralyn manson. Which really worries me. Listen to better music. And in your profile you list Terranigma as your favorite game, and why not? It's an awesome game. But based on this evidence I should hope to god, your god not mine, that you aren't older than 25. I'm going to go so far as to guess that you're not older than 20.

You probably take your religion seriously, and that's good. If you're going to believe in something, you should take it seriously. So you've probably spent your time here on the internet looking up different ideas and facets of based on your religion, trying to get a better understanding of it. And that's grand, too. From the looks of things, you brought many of those zany ideas here because they sounded oh so good. Except frankly, they don't mean anything.

There is a reason that we are arguing with you so fully, Resonator, and that is because what you're saying just doesn't make much sense. No, it's not that it doesn't make sense because we don't know the truth. Or because we're positive and negative and we didn't accentuate the positive or something. It's because your ideas are very wishy-washy, and your ability to explain them sucks. And because we don't care. Godless heathens and all.

My advice to you is to think long and hard about your religion. If you still feel the same way about it, that's great. It really, truly is. I'm not just saying that. Just don't jump to any conclusions, and never, ever assume that you're right, especially when arguing about religion over the internet. That's just retarded.

[halfjack]

Vicious Parker, I do believe that I would like to marry you. That was an extremely good read. Thank you.

[Resonator]

Hey, you guys are right. At least you're happy.

If anyone would like to ask questions in private about what I know, as some of you may feel embarassed to ask them here, have no fear to click the PM button. I will explain (If it is a lengthy time between messages) everything about what I preached here, since I see that me simply telling you what comes to mind is clearly confusing. Everything and anything can be asked.

Hopefully, you will see as I do one day. With patience, your answer will come.

EDIT: I'm 22.

[Stars]

so why don't you type normally when you talk about religion

edit: i'm a number too. that make me cool

[rosedragon]

Because we have been lied to. Perhaps not about the existence of god. He's probably up there somewhere laughing at us for this forum thread. But because people we have trusted to lead us to god have lied to us. Have mislead us. Have taken parts of our lives and destroyed them. They have destroyed our trust, not only in them, but in god. If he is up there, he has a lot of work to do.

"Seeing the truth" is easy when you only see what you want to see, Resonator.

I should put it as my favourite quote.

[Resonator]

so why don't you type normally when you talk about religion

edit: i'm a number too. that make me cool

I only speak what comes to mind. And for that I have already spoken.

The number is my age. I am not the number, because I do not see myself as 22 years old mentally. When you picture time elapsing, naturally it represents forward progress in whatever it connects to. We can measure it if we wish, but I think of the measurement for my age as a number only.

In all honesty, acting like a child can draw forth some clashing side-effects with other humans when I interact with them, but at the same time it opens you up to a much better standpoint for understanding, especially at my measured age when the mind has matured enough to be more precise. You take in much more, give more thought and imagination to what is said and done around you.

It ultimately is a path for a volunteer.

EDIT: I know I said I wouldn't burden you guys in this topic anymore, so I tried to display my experience for you rather than a belief. Something concrete to bang your head on ;)

[Stars]

You are still a number to me. One of the many insignificant numbers in the masses of religions. Another number that preaches false hopes.

No matter what you say that number represents, I will always see you as a number.

[Resonator]

EDIT: Hmm...Well, I said I wouldn't burden, so post delorted...

[Stars]

All right, number 22. Let me just tell you that today has been a wonderful day for me. I took a wonderful walk around the neighborhood, ate some popcorn, talked to some friends, and basically enjoyed everything. This topic brings me wonderful smiles and makes me feel happy. It's extremely satisfying to see you write rather horrid posts in response to some well-balanced arguments. I've certainly been amused by your intentions. You're quite a funny guy, mostly because of your rather blissful ignorance. Let me just tell you, it's been fun playing with you. Isn't this a kick in the face? All of my posts were done in happiness, not anger. Blithe, wonderful happiness. :)

Now, let's get to the point here. You recently sent me a personal message entitled "The reason why YOU cannot believe." Now, the contents of it are quite easy to quote, here, stating that the reason that I "cannot believe" is "because of [my] post. It will never let you see the truth, but learning to see is hard for some." I can see you are quite angry here, because your words are highly distorted. And you further add, "PS: Nearly every widespread doctrine on the face of God is a lie. Everything else is true."

Now, let's look at the facts, number 22. You make a couple wonderfully ignorant assumptions, the first one being that I "don't believe." The second one is that I "cannot see." Well, here's the thing. I have 20/20 vision. It's wonderful, I'm practically the only person in my family who does not require glasses to see correctly.

On to the whole business where I "don't believe." I don't really understand how you came to that option, mister 22. Since when have I ever implied I "don't believe" in God? Nowhere once have I explicitly said that, 22. You only assume things because I so magically am able to destroy your feeble arguments that you decide I am an atheist. No doubt you are also angered by Vicious Parker's rather powerful, more well done destructions of your pathetic ideals.

I'm sorry, I had to smile a bit. Vicious Parker makes wonderful posts, and I really admire his work.

Heheh.

Back, now to the whole "believing" issue. I once saw as you saw, actually. And I once believed what you believed. But then I realized I was a slave. God's slave. You know, God, right? You guys always put him or her as some wonderful being, a person to idolize. S/he created all humans perfect. Then something rather horrible happened to humans, and now we are, in fact, flawed. I do not believe that is the whole story. The true story is that God is flawed. S/he made humans, but s/he also made the mistakes that turned humans shitty. S/he feels anger, too; s/he also likes to kill people.

Have I actually stated whether or not I believe in God yet? No, I have not. But know this: if I do think God exists, I also happen to think he is a major faggot. And since you find God so close to you, that you even believe God is WITHIN you, then I, too, find you to be a faggot.

Nice talking to you, number 22. Really, you're more like number 1,000 to me... A broken record of hopes and dreams. You are a slave to your own religion, and you remain blissfully ignorant of that.

You also happen to make me smile and laugh when you say, "Your anger warps your words." Last I checked, 22, I'm quite happy. Especially when I tear down your beliefs. Indeed, YOU are the one who is angry. YOU are the one with twisted words. YOU are the one who is pathetically unhappy.

:D

[Resonator]

It seems I've been forced to submit to this. If you will not try, there is no point in dissecting your post.

Touche, douchebag.

[rosedragon]

22 is not the age of maturity. It is the peak age when your mind forced you to decide what you going to take for the whole life, based on everything you have collect in your teen ages.

Using words that hard to be understand isn't a sign of maturity. Easier for me to read scientific report or 'The Greater Key of Solomon'.

[Resonator]

My apologies, I did not mean to imply I was finished that process. I only meant to represent 2 forces, one of which I have thrown in reverse subconsciously.

Also, do I gotta talk like this to make it click in your heads? I like the intellectual way more...

EDIT: I think, after re-reading Vicious Parker's post briefly, we need a neutral party to mediate and discuss this further. Normally there is a rule of neutrality on debate forums, but since this board has neither the rule or the forum we need a neutral person who will actually read what I wrote and ask proper questions in regards to what I've said.

[Stars]

I am quite biased against unhappy people.

Good talk, good talk. I enjoyed it.

[Vicious Parker]

I would actually like to say that while I still agree with the opinions expressed in my last post, I may have said things a bit more harsh than I had intended. Sometimes it's hard not to get caught up in the heat of debate, especially late at night, after a particularly depressing weekend. But I digress.

I think that for the time being I'm done with the arguing part of this thread. Though don't be surprised if I go back to playing the devil's advocate again. I still need to get caught up on the recent posts, though.

Also, Resonator, I've added you to MSN. theinvinciblewhatever@somewhere.com. If you catch me online, say hello. It could be fun.

[Resonator]

I thought that was someone from here. Unfortunately it requires MSN to work :P

Also, a quote from Dream Theater's new album:

I once thought it better to regret...
Things that I have done,
than haven't...
Sometimes you've got to be wrong,
to learn the hard way...
You just gotta keep hanging on,
when you think it's too late...

[rosedragon]

Good quote and I regret my old faith after giving it chances a few time.

[Resonator]

Where has God failed you in your life? Where did he fail where you succeeded?

Don't click the below spoiler if you're not ready for it. There doesn't need to be more mindless arguing (On both my part and whoevers), but I'm happy to debate inconsistencies and other things. No facepalm crap, no BLA FORCED OPPRESSION (Because it's not this time), just read and be merry elsewhere, read and debate, or don't read at all.

[color=#000000;background:#000000;' onmouseover="this.style.color='#FFFFFF'" onmouseout="this.style.color='#000000']It is not to God that you should carry your burden. His son died for all of us, but you have to really understand what it means on a spiritual basis. That he made it possible when he Ascended for all of us who simply believe in him, just admit in your darkest moment, "I'm going down in flames, man...If I give my spirit to you, all I ask in return is your love to bring me back to life,".

On a different level, this was probably planned out right from the beginning. God, ascended being, remains higher than his angels because he must have given them life on that plane. That's why it's possible for us to be forgiven at all costs, because Jesus was man, created by God, and Ascended to the right hand of the father after his journey was complete, so that we may follow him.

That alone, if true, proves your fate. We may not be ready for Ascension, but we have been told time and time again (Those of us who listen to sources of truth) that this is a human experience. Perhaps that is not the only reason we are here today, as we begin to bear witness to countless people (Just like me) beginning to understand things on a whole new level. And perhaps it is a mutual random delusion, the same one shared by an entire community very large in number, in fact, but I refuse to accept that it is mere coincidence.

Do I think we will see the end? Who knows. Know that the person who brings it about will give half of his soul to darkness out of free will, so that you can achieve this. Not only is this for you, but the transformation cannot be complete without all the components in order, so to speak. I refer to the concept of the devil, and I strongly think that it is possible to raise him back to his throne in Heaven. I know I spoke of this a different way earlier, the concept of the devil, but it is a completely different concept in this case if you look closely.

If any one here took Theology, or done some light reading on "The War Within Heaven", the devil simply could not accept Humanity as greater than he, and would not bow to us when God commanded all his angels to do so. For him, it was Idolatry. He loved God more than he loved us, and for it he was given both punishment for ignorance, and the power to bring the end of our trial to return to Heaven beside God himself. It is not for everyone, Ascension I mean, but it will transform us all as a race. Life will go on, as they say.[/color]

[Vicious Parker]

Perhaps that is not the only reason we are here today, as we begin to bear witness to countless people (Just like me) beginning to understand things on a whole new level.

sigh.