252 replies to this topic

[Monkeydog]

That's not true at all, monkey.

Well it may not just be JUST Christianity...but those rules don't apply to a lot of religions, like Hinduism, Buddism, Taoism, Shinto, and even Judaism.

It's more of a Zionist/Christian/Islamic idea that god is always good and happy, and the idea of sins having to dictate your life.

Buddism, Hinduism, Judaism doesn't have gods that are all good, they can be evil and be one to do wrong doings, and they also do not have sin dictating what they do. There is a set of rules that they should do, but that doesn't mean they always have to, especially in Eastern religions where it pretty much only dictates what one wants to achieve in their current life.

But considering how many religions there are...it really tends to just be a Christian/Zionist idea. I don't even think Islam is as fear stricken with Sin and has such a infallible god as those two religions.

[kspr]

ummm....it doesnt matter what you agree with walrus, it just matters that it exists. if im wandering blindly down the highway against traffic during rush hour, i can believe i wont get hit by a car all i want. ill just be one surprised kalamitycake when it happens anyway.

[Anthony Totinos]

ummm....it doesnt matter what you agree with walrus, it just matters that it exists. if im wandering blindly down the highway against traffic during rush hour, i can believe i wont get hit by a car all i want. ill just be one surprised kalamitycake when it happens anyway.

I was implying that I don't believe that a supposedly loving God could sentence one of his creations to eternal suffering, not that me "agreeing" with the style of punishment had anything to do with its existence.

[Resonator]

What you're saying sounds great and happy sunshiney and all, but as far as an argument goes, that sort of thing would only work on someone who is trying to find god through christianity.

How can I respond but to quote you in the same post, adding that perhaps it's trust you need to find the truth?

The promise of eternal life and bliss and puppies is very nice, but I know another religion that has been promising that for longer than yours. And another for longer than his. Who do I trust? For right now, I'm not trusting a single one.

When you trust, you will understand that your trust has not been misplaced. It does not matter where you look.

And I also refuse to accept that any loving god would punish his creations to eternal damnation, so the walrus' picture will continue to be useless to me. Yes, there are bad people in the world, and I can't claim to know what happens any of us when we die. Eternal damnation and torture just make no sense to me. I couldn't be part of a religion that uses fear and punishment as encouragement for being a good person.

Maybe you're looking in the wrong place for the answer, and I don't really question you for doing so as that is the food which you have been given to eat, consisting of dark meat and white meat. One is naturally more appealing than the other, regardless that the meat will always be from the same animal, but let me tell you that black and white mean nothing when there is only one reason we exist, and I promise you, Vicious Parker, that you will find the real answers on Friday of this week, August the 8th to be exact.

Know that when you suffer after death, you simply realize that all that weight stopped you from achieving your true purpose when you die. Think of human existence as a tool to shed the negativity from your soul in the manner I've described already. If that was your goal, and unknowingly on earth you pined away from it, you would certainly suffer for that loss when you died. You can re-incarnate as many times as you want, you have to succeed here on earth to do it. And that requires the choice to be doing the right thing, whatever it is in YOUR heart, not mine and not anyone elses.

Remember this: Knowing what I have said, you make a vow to never do it again. Yet still you do the things you didn't want to do. It is because of a) You are only beginning your test, and b) perhaps, even with all the training you might do to stop yourself, it was never meant to be that way for someone else. Keep that in mind when you question yourself, for you are always one with the One energy (Call it God), because your soul is but an aspect of it to form the collective one. Know that whatever comes from that is the will of the one, but it is only a suggestion. It is your choice to make to follow it.

By the way, hello completely random person. Unless you're not that random and there's a conspiracy here.

Do I still come across as random? ;)

[Vicious Parker]

I actually find a couple of things you're saying in there interesting, but my brain isn't in the right place to really comment or have an actual reply at this time.

I just want to snicker a bit at your analogy, since I'm a vegetarian. But that's just useless pickiness on my part.

Also... this friday? Should i wear two pair of underpants?

[rosedragon]

Resonator, your last post makes me dizzy.

[Vicious Parker]

Another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody, I got some money cuz I just got paid.... nevermind. Wrong song.



That is to say, it's Saturday, August 9th, 2008. Which is, if I'm not mistaken, a day or so after Friday, August 8th, 2008. And wouldn't you know it, I'm still a godless heathen. No, that doesn't sound right, I'm a mother fucking godless heathen. And at this particular second, I'm one who's angry at life for no real reason because I have no real reason to be (oh lol, cuz I don't have god) (edit 8-13-08: because of a girl).

There was nothing, by the way, that seemed even remotely like a religious experience on Friday. So go figure. Some random dude on the internet says something without having to back up his statement with anything. Imagine that. And why would he? I mean, if something did happen, why not play the "I told you so" card. But since nothing did, which was more likely, it would be just as easy to leave anonymously without losing anything.

So what's next, Resonator? Going to post again with more wasteful thinking, or are you going to disappear because there's really no reason to stay around here?

[rosedragon]

He was going to kill you and send you to afterlife-something but then the 'trees taller at night' of your park scare him.

[Resonator]

So a numerologists cause has not seemed apparent in your eyes. Why is that, you might ask. Why didn't I see or experience anything that day?

The reason is that this has become a test for you. Perhaps you did not witness anything out of the ordinary, but is there really anything to prove, knowing the truth? If you trust in yourself, you will not need these things. If you believe in God, and strive to do things in his name, He will work through you. It is like this saying:

11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

As I have said, your body is a tool to build on yourself. The reason this day is important for numerologists is because it corresponds with new change. Numerologists would have no reason to say such things in the years before the 20th century because there was no reason to. It is because the changes going on with your spirit, the aspect of the collective one is undergoing changes that are unimaginable, and it is a chain event that is only growing stronger, hinting at the next wave of human evolution.

Back on topic with numerology, it is because the power of imagination in all of us is growing stronger as are many aspects of our soul, and is beginning to resonate certain truths with the will of God and all the angels. Likewise, who you are mirrors what comes out of your mouth in this manner and "higher vibrational" people are more prone to receive a message of a lighter truth as opposed to a darker one. You witnessed this yourself just now, when you said "No, that doesn't sound right, I'm a mother fucking godless heathen". Your anger distorted what came out from the imagination, because that was who you were at that point in time. Remember that.

All in all, to say that this is a special day means it was meant to be mentioned to someone, anyone, for any reason. Perhaps I was mistaken if I hinted at some supernatural event, but in relation to the truth how supernatural could this conversation be, coming from those circumstances? Could it have been for you all along?

In Faith and Confidence I leave you. Never doubt, and never lose touch.

REACH OUT AND TOUCH FAITH!

[Vicious Parker]

you just believe in all sorts of crazy shit, don't you? couldn't just pick one ideology and stick to it, you had to combine a bunch of different forms of woo in order to make yourself feel better? i suppose that is a growing trend these days. when one religion isn't good enough, you take the ideas you like from others and roll with it.

also, i think you misinterpreted my previous post. i happened to post that when i was in a particularly bad mood, for entirely unrelated things.

and you're bringing numerology in to this? that's what the 8-8-08 crap was about? give me a break. not only am i finding the concept of god hard to swallow these days, but numerology, too? that's the problem with religion and spirituality: too often the "evidence" or whatever you might call it comes from taking purely anecdotal coincidences and applying them to some higher power. They have no basis in reality. Which leads me to my next point.

Back on topic with numerology, it is because the power of imagination in all of us

the power of imagination, indeed.

then again, i suppose that's what this whole topic is about.

[Amethyst]

Alright, I'm suddenly entering this discussion having not read more than a page and a half or so. Sue me.

Mr.Resonator person, while I agree with most of what you're saying, there's a little paragraph there that's really irritating me.

Back on topic with numerology, it is because the power of imagination in all of us is growing stronger as are many aspects of our soul, and is beginning to resonate certain truths with the will of God and all the angels. Likewise, who you are mirrors what comes out of your mouth in this manner and "higher vibrational" people are more prone to receive a message of a lighter truth as opposed to a darker one. You witnessed this yourself just now, when you said "No, that doesn't sound right, I'm a mother fucking godless heathen". Your anger distorted what came out from the imagination, because that was who you were at that point in time. Remember that.

Yeah, that one.

Back on topic with numerology, it is because the power of imagination in all of us is growing stronger as are many aspects of our soul, and is beginning to resonate certain truths with the will of God and all the angels.

Look, I don't even know where to begin with this. You've been talking about energy frequency and correspondences this whole damn time and if you look outside your perfect little evangelical box, you'd notice you've just betrayed everything you've been talking about with that statement. Funny thing is, from where I'm standing there is no -one perfect truth-. What is truth to you is only reminiscing to most. When you say that certain truths will resonate with God, what you're really saying is that certain opinions will be even more fully accept, creating a greater connection to the energy pool known as God, or rather, Yahweh.

However, your assumption that Christianity is the truth is limiting your perception. Your musings about this energy stuff, I would judge to be entirely correct. Although, this works against the Christian faith. By suggesting that this energy does exist, you're actually acknowledging a polytheistic philosophy.

Energy is what energy is -imagined to be-. It is because the power of imagination in some of us is growing stronger, as are many aspects of our soul, and is beginning to resonate certain ideas with the collective consciousness and the energy field that composes the entire universe. In other words, it's because of these energy correspondences that Yahweh and other Immortal God type things do exist.

Let me clarify for those confused about all this energy stuff.

Energy correspondences are a certain belief that by aligning everything with matching energy, the energy itself can be amplified. For instance, Valentine's day is accompanied by Pink, Red, White and lots of Hearts. Such things are symbols of romance. I guess. Why? Was there any preconceived -truth- in the universe that spells out that pink is the color of love? Uh, no, of course not. But it is. Why? Because in our own culture and minds, that is what it represents, because that is what we have always been told it represents. As for the most part is generally accepted, it is consider "true".
On a much larger scale, the Yahweh is the "true" God because many accept him. But there was never a divine being like the bible says that created the world or whatever. And nobody or nothing made Yahweh the true ultimate power. Like Yahweh, we accept the Bible as "true" because that is what is generally accepted. It is because it is. It's a paradox that creates itself.
And as long as people continue to believe in such a thing, their mental energy creates a sort of pool, and that pool of energy is really all that Yahweh ever is. By the same means, any God one can imagine and contribute energy to, is "true" at least in their own mind. Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

This energy you're talking about, the correspondences of 8/8/08 only mean something if their value is connected to something. In your case, it is. In Kid Vicious' case, it's not.

You witnessed this yourself just now, when you said "No, that doesn't sound right, I'm a mother fucking godless heathen". Your anger distorted what came out from the imagination, because that was who you were at that point in time. Remember that.

That is purely fictionalized, it's energy that would exist for you, but does not for him, as he doesn't believe in it (or so I reckon). And I don't appreciate you putting words into his mouth, or feelings into his head. Anger distorted it? If there was anger, there was nothing for it to distort. Simple as that.

Likewise, who you are mirrors what comes out of your mouth

Is this only to affirm your own correctness to yourself? Coupled with you sticking phrases that I see no suggestion of him actually saying, you're reshaping his identity, or at least in your own mind.

"higher vibrational" people are more prone to receive a message of a lighter truth as opposed to a darker one.

Let me learn you something: Energy, as we know, requires there to be negative and positive. We already have proof of this, that in all things, there are electrons surrounding and within each atom, respectively. It is not to say that these are the smallest things in the universe, but since they interact the most with the world that is around us (Dropping and gathering valence electrons) it is logical to assume that within the Atom itself lies a reaction that reflects the greater system, that the negative within us never drops. Nor does the positive. That being said as fact, we already know that, in terms of negative to positive, is that we add weight to the atom by picking up negative electrons or even having positive ones. Though we consider negative and positive to be less and more, bad and good, malevolence and benevolence, dark and light, low and high, they are all just words, ideas that correspond with each other because that is what we have been raised to believe. Higher vibrational people are in your mind more prone to receive a message of a lighter truth as opposed to a darker one. But this is of course, only in your mind.
And to me, it doesn't seem that your mind reflecting on his mind, or any other mind is finding any truth. Your opinions distorted what came out from the endless possibility, because that was what you believed at that point in time. Remember that.

[rosedragon]

LOL with all the theories and twists...

I would define Resonator's post as denialism.

Denialism is the employment of rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of argument or legitimate debate, when in actuality there is none. These false arguments are used when one has few or no facts to support one's viewpoint against a scientific consensus or against overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They are effective in distracting from actual useful debate using emotionally appealing, but ultimately empty and illogical assertions.

5 general tactics are used by denialists to sow confusion. They are conspiracy, selectivity (cherry-picking), fake experts, impossible expectations (also known as moving goalposts), and general fallacies of logic.

Finally, some ground rules. Part of understanding denialism is knowing that it's futile to argue with them, and giving them yet another forum is unnecessary. They also have the advantage of just being able to make things up and it takes forever to knock down each argument as they're only limited by their imagination while we're limited by things like logic and data. They aren't interested in truth, data, or informative discussion, they're interested in their world view being the only one, and they'll say anything to try to bring this about.

Second, denialism isn't about name-calling or the psychological coping mechanism of denial. The first reaction of any denialist to being labeled such is to merely reply, "you're the denialist" or to redefine the terms so that it excludes them (usually comparing themselves to Galileo in the process).

Finally, just because some people believe in stupid things, doesn't make them denialists. A lot of people get suckered in by denialist arguments and benefit from having the record corrected or being shown how to recognize good scientific debate versus unsound denialist debates. Part of the reason denialists abound and are often successful in bringing the masses over to their side is that their arguments don't necessarily sound insane to the uninitiated. Denialist arguments are emotionally appealing and work on a lot of people.

Reference: http://scienceblogs....alism/about.php

[Resonator]

I'm sorry I could not provide the kind of proof you need to believe me. It is simply a different kind of power than you are used to. You have seen proof all over the world, acts of love, compassion, friendship...Is this not what I was trying to say? This IS the truth of God, the will of the one behind your eyes trying to act in front of your eyes so you may believe.

Is that so hard to grasp as truth? Is there no kindness, compassion, and unconditional love left in this world that you would deny the proof of his existence? You do these things because you act on the better part of you that says "Gee, it's time for compassion/love here, let's make some!" The simple fact that this is possible, under ANY circumstance with the will to make that choice, is not proof for you? As I have said, there is not just one truth to God, and I would be foolish to say so. It is not for me to decide for you what is true, but still you (All of you arguing here with me) have not even TRIED to see this truth, and you blame me for not bringing the proof of it to you? What is this travesty of man, the ones who will blindly argue with me. You have permanently blinded yourself against one thing so you do not recognize it immediately in your presence, but you do not need to see the air to know it is there, so to speak.

We are all constantly evolving in these times. If you have no strength to act on your kind and compassionate wills, I would say you are displaying a lack of proof for your own ability as a whole entity. You would not even try to prove God's existence in YOU, so that YOU could see it. And as you remain two, it is forever in question as to what you will do next. You want something concrete to smack your head upon, do it for yourself. When you become one with that power, there is no need for any more proof then what you gain for yourself.

[Vicious Parker]

Are you saying that I can't be kind and compassionate without god? So no kind and compassionate people exist unless they know god?

I can argue with you all day and still be a kind person. Perhaps not in your eyes, since I'm very clearly disagreeing with you. Sometimes very strongly. But what difference does that make? This thread was created for the purpose of argument. You took that risk when you posted here.

[Monkeydog]

Is that so hard to grasp as truth? Is there no kindness, compassion, and unconditional love left in this world that you would deny the proof of his existence? You do these things because you act on the better part of you that says "Gee, it's time for compassion/love here, let's make some!" The simple fact that this is possible, under ANY circumstance with the will to make that choice, is not proof for you? As I have said, there is not just one truth to God, and I would be foolish to say so. It is not for me to decide for you what is true, but still you (All of you arguing here with me) have not even TRIED to see this truth, and you blame me for not bringing the proof of it to you? What is this travesty of man, the ones who will blindly argue with me. You have permanently blinded yourself against one thing so you do not recognize it immediately in your presence, but you do not need to see the air to know it is there, so to speak.

I'm not really reading this topic, but those are false assumptions.

I have grown up in a highly religious family.(my mother is Catholic, my father's family are Jehovah's)

Vicious, I do believe, used to be Christian, and used to argue with me about religion at times.

And rekaru, despite me not thinking he has posted here, goes to a Christian school.

I do believe all three of us are atheists, and I'm pretty sure we all have a background on trying to see this truth you speak of.

[Stars]

I'm sorry I could not provide the kind of proof you need to believe me. It is simply a different kind of power than you are used to. You have seen proof all over the world, acts of love, compassion, friendship...Is this not what I was trying to say? This IS the truth of God, the will of the one behind your eyes trying to act in front of your eyes so you may believe.

Is that so hard to grasp as truth? Is there no kindness, compassion, and unconditional love left in this world that you would deny the proof of his existence? You do these things because you act on the better part of you that says "Gee, it's time for compassion/love here, let's make some!" The simple fact that this is possible, under ANY circumstance with the will to make that choice, is not proof for you? As I have said, there is not just one truth to God, and I would be foolish to say so. It is not for me to decide for you what is true, but still you (All of you arguing here with me) have not even TRIED to see this truth, and you blame me for not bringing the proof of it to you? What is this travesty of man, the ones who will blindly argue with me. You have permanently blinded yourself against one thing so you do not recognize it immediately in your presence, but you do not need to see the air to know it is there, so to speak.

We are all constantly evolving in these times. If you have no strength to act on your kind and compassionate wills, I would say you are displaying a lack of proof for your own ability as a whole entity. You would not even try to prove God's existence in YOU, so that YOU could see it. And as you remain two, it is forever in question as to what you will do next. You want something concrete to smack your head upon, do it for yourself. When you become one with that power, there is no need for any more proof then what you gain for yourself.

I'm sorry, but I am highly tempted to flame the hell out of you because you are basically saying "Vicious Parker and atheists do not believe in God; therefore, Vicious Parker and friends are flaming bags of bat dung and faggot-semen with no morals, emotions, love, and compassion." You further go on to assume that Vicious Parker and atheists in general have never seeked God before, and that because of that, they are basically LESSER than those who have "found God." Basically, you're placing all atheists below you.

Furthermore, all this about FRIENDSHIP and LOVE being EVIDENCE OF GOD'S EXISTENCE is profound bullshit. You could basically say, "Have you not heard about that five-year-old getting raped by a child molester? This is evidence of God's existence!" How is this statement similar to yours? Well, like your statement, it is not backed up by anything. Like your statement, it makes no motherfucking sense. Like your statement, it is not true. I'm guessing penises are also evidence of almighty God's existence, too?

In short, you, sir, are an assfuck. Good bye.

[Stars]

Also, Resonator, stop typing like you're the bloody HOLY BIBLE. It's a horribly convoluted writing style, and it makes you even more of a pretentious dickwad. Fuck off, and stop trying to confuse people to make them think that you make sense. Because frankly, it's annoying. And you're an assfuck.

[Amethyst]

Sorry, Resonator, you're on a forum with a bunch of "mother fucking godless heathens" who know how to think for themselves. I was raised Christian too. Now I'm a Nihilist/Wiccan.

Further more, I'm actually very offended that you don't believe in the human's own capability to show compassion/love/etc without God. It actually says a lot about your own prejudices. It says that you look down on those people- anyone who isn't a Christian, and you assume they're hateful, "evil" people, to some degree.
I'm sorry that God and a religion born of fear is the only way or reason you do/believe in such things. I really am. I pity you, for that- that you have no faith in your own ability, and that you have to get all your strength from some divine being.

[Resonator]

Your nothing resembles that which represents the devil best. Polar opposites, my friends. I will not burden you anymore after this, but I only wish that when you see the truth in action, you will remember what I have said. You think my God is power, even after I said he was the love, he was the compassion. You must seek within to see this truth, that both negative and positive exist here and you are BINDED to it. It is your entire reason for being. Throughout the years, you have all done much, for once you were separate, much as we are today. When you ascended to light, our race evolved to the spiritual plane, bodies becoming energy and forming that One. It lives within the light as though the light itself is a plane of existence, and now in this new millenium we are beginning our final transformation stage to that evolution.

If you do not choose to follow it, make the mental choice and believe that you are one with God, through all his trials thenceforth you will not become what you are destined to be. When you succeed at his tests, doing his will, the true spiritual journey begins, and you will experience as I have experienced and you will suffer the same fate as I to preach this among your brothers and sisters.

The anger I observe only serves to bring you down, not so much in your cause as it is for yourself. It can accomplish nothing, and this topic will accomplish nothing if there is no real debate. As I said, your anger will distort what comes from your mouth, and what comes from your mouth comes from your heart. Would you have me believe it is as black as ash? You most definitely control everything you do, but what you do as two rather than one is what makes the difference.

Let me ask you this, as a question I will never answer for you: If I told you that my same God told the Muslim prophets to fight in the name of God, so that this war we face may be waged to signal the end, would you believe? Their battles have come and gone over years, but for one to come in such a time of transformation is very much a coincidence, is it not? You may not see the connection, but then you might wonder if there was some truth in it. The answer lies within, not without. A question can also lead to a doorway to the path you seek.

[Stars]

Dear Resonator,

Your everything resembles that which represents God best. Polar similarities, my assfuck. I will continue to burden you after this, and I wish that when you see the truth of your idiocy, you will remember what I have said. You think my disbelief in God is not power, even after I said it was the opinion, and that your words suck. You must seek within to see this truth, that both your idiocy and assfuckery exist here and you are BINDED to it. It is your entire being which is the reason for why you are an idiot. Throughout the years, you have done little, for once you were separate, much as you are today. When you ascended to pretentious, racism has evolved to the spiritual plane, bodies becoming energy and forming that communism. It lives within the light as though the light itself is a plane of existence, and now in this new millenium we are beginning you will apparently lead this glorious new age of communism by using brainwashing tactics and the Bible.

If you continue to follow your downright assfuckery, make the mental choice and believe that you are one with God, through all his trials thenceforth you will become what you are destined to be: the biggest dickwad to ever walk the planet. When you succeed at his nonexistant tests, doing his nonexistant will, the nonexistant spiritual journey begins, and you will experience as I have experienced that you are a mere insignificant speck in the universe. Indeed, you are not God, nor is God you; you are a speck with huge thoughts and nothing more, because none of it has any basis.

The idiocy I observe only serves to bring you down, not so much in your cause as it is for yourself. It can accomplish nothing, and this topic will accomplish nothing you continue to debate idiotically. As I said, your idiocy will distort what comes from your mouth, and what comes from your mouth comes from your heart. Would you have me believe it is as white as light? You most definitely control everything you do, but what you do as two rather than one is what makes the difference.

Let me ask you this, as a question I will never answer for you: If I told you that my disbelief in God told the firefighters to fight the wildfires of California, so that natural disasters would end, would you believe? Their battles have come and gone over years, but for one to come in such a time of transformation is very much a coincidence, is it not? You may not see the connection, but then you might wonder if there was some truth in it. The answer lies without, not within. A question can also lead to a doorway to the path you seek: redemption from idiocy.

I speak from the very bowels of my heart, Resonator: your God is a faggot. I want nothing to do with him. I want to be myself, I want to go wherever I want to go. Am I split in two? Am I God? Are you saying that we are all part of God? Well then, that makes this argument much simpler. I'm God. And I think that you are a motherfucker who should leave. And since you worship me, get the fuck out and jump off a cliff. Thanks. That makes me a faggot. I still want nothing to do with me. But at least you're gone.