252 replies to this topic

[rosedragon]

Believes are just believes... you can't say any of it true. It true for your perception or view but might not for others.

[Puffin]

actually, christians were accused of being heretics, they were killed for several years until their religion became more widespread and accepted, but before that they had to hide their beliefs from others, otherwise they were jailed and executed.
and, yeah, I know about the whole viking thing, it happened with every religion the christians deemed to be barbaric or something of that sort. christians were just as intolerant about others' beliefs as any other religion was, which, really, wasn't very surprising seeing as how every religion has acted like that at some point or another.
and actually, the bible doesn't condone rape, granted, there's no commandment that says it's wrong, but the commandments aren't the only rules in the bible, they were just the first rules given by god. There's a passages within the bible I once read that states that if a man is to rape a woman, he should be punished for it with death, it also goes on to state that the woman shouldn't be punished for it as well (since, of course, during the time if a woman, or anyone else, did have sex before marriage, they would be killed for commiting a sin, but this pointed out that if she was raped, she had no choice in the matter and that it was of no fault of her own).

[Stars]

There's a passages within the bible I once read that states that if a man is to rape a woman, he should be punished for it with death, it also goes on to state that the woman shouldn't be punished for it as well (since, of course, during the time if a woman, or anyone else, did have sex before marriage, they would be killed for commiting a sin, but this pointed out that if she was raped, she had no choice in the matter and that it was of no fault of her own).

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)



As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.





And just like I said, every religion preaches their way is the best. How odd is that when their is supposed to be one god?

[Stars]

There's a passages within the bible I once read that states that if a man is to rape a woman, he should be punished for it with death, it also goes on to state that the woman shouldn't be punished for it as well (since, of course, during the time if a woman, or anyone else, did have sex before marriage, they would be killed for commiting a sin, but this pointed out that if she was raped, she had no choice in the matter and that it was of no fault of her own).

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)



As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.





And just like I said, every religion preaches their way is the best. How odd is that when their is supposed to be one god?

LOL.

Religion smelligion. I hate the people who consult the Bible before doing something, like opening a door or something.

[Puffin]

And just like I said, every religion preaches their way is the best. How odd is that when their is supposed to be one god?

not really odd at all, considering no one wants to be told 'no, you're wrong, my god is the better/real/right/only god' in fact it just makes perfect sense, since few people would accept something like that.

and as for Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT and Deuteronomy 20:10-14, well, can't say everything in the bible is all just and right...in fact, alot of it's just downright screwed up, but alot of that is, well, just due to the fact that many of its rules and what not are out of date and would be considered wrong in our society today, but as it is? we don't really need the bible to guide us, though. hell, I know I haven't even picked up a bible since... well, really, I don't even know the answer to that. cuz really, just a few of the commandments are 'don't kill', 'don't commit adultery', and 'don't steal' which are all laws in our society now, so we certainly don't need the bible to tell us its wrong, cuz that's obvious enough already...the way I think of it, the commandments and all that were just necessary in an age where there weren't many laws, or when the laws weren't enforced well or fairly and all that.

[rosedragon]

actually, christians were accused of being heretics, they were killed for several years until their religion became more widespread and accepted, but before that they had to hide their beliefs from others, otherwise they were jailed and executed.
and, yeah, I know about the whole viking thing, it happened with every religion the christians deemed to be barbaric or something of that sort. christians were just as intolerant about others' beliefs as any other religion was, which, really, wasn't very surprising seeing as how every religion has acted like that at some point or another.
and actually, the bible doesn't condone rape, granted, there's no commandment that says it's wrong, but the commandments aren't the only rules in the bible, they were just the first rules given by god. There's a passages within the bible I once read that states that if a man is to rape a woman, he should be punished for it with death, it also goes on to state that the woman shouldn't be punished for it as well (since, of course, during the time if a woman, or anyone else, did have sex before marriage, they would be killed for commiting a sin, but this pointed out that if she was raped, she had no choice in the matter and that it was of no fault of her own).

And christians also ever hunts other religions and people because their religions. Also scientists.

They call those people 'witches' 'satan's followers' and such. :P

[Puffin]

And christians also ever hunts other religions and people because their religions. Also scientists.

They call those people 'witches' 'satan's followers' and such. :P

well, yeah :P I don't think there's any one person who can say that their religion hasn't done something like that at least once, really...

[Vicious Parker]

Religion smelligion. I hate the people who consult the Bible before doing something, like opening a door or something.

And why should you hate that?

If you're going to talk the talk, you had better also walk the walk.

[rosedragon]

Religion smelligion. I hate the people who consult the Bible before doing something, like opening a door or something.

And why should you hate that?

If you're going to talk the talk, you had better also walk the walk.

I would upset to people who only can say 'pray to God' or 'Just let God solve it' or such without even spending 10 minutes to think about my question.

[kspr]

Yeah... I think i would bow down before snail before I would to chist lol!!

The point of religion that no one seems to gt is that it is all fabricated by man. Every single religious document was written by man therefore being a creation of man. Did christ actually exist? Sure. Did he dies through roman crusification? It is possible. Does that mean he's his own father? No. Save mankinds souls? No. That Muhammed and other prophets didnt exist? No.

Like I said it cant be proven. No matter what arguement we may say abou tit it will never be proven.

i totally agree with that. the only god you can know for sure is the god that created YOU. therefore the only way to truly worship the real god is to keep gods creation in the best possible way. that means take care of yourself, exercise, excel, and shower damnit! the only way to truly honoring your creator is to honor yourself, for you are the only link you have with the true creator. for all these mainstream religeous types are certain, they could be praying to some giant potatoe somewhere. idk, but if I were god, and my creation was praying towards a potato instead of me, id be pretty pissed, and not to think twice about removing your existence from the cycle.

[Arutha]

please don't go into a whole religion bashing. I hate those and it insults other people and their beliefs.
i just put this up because i loved the story and totally believe in this.



"Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and ed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and . "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's ; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that cannot exist as a substantive thing. is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

This students statements are true, can you or can you not make night darker?

Is it possible for it to get colder after absolute zero -458 degree's F.

Can you feel,taste,see,hear,or smell your brain?

(and i know i might of have said previously somewhere like on the first page or whatever but i won't be back here and stuffs cause i don't feel like it)

[Monkeydog]

Jeez Josh, that story is so stupid and uneducated BS never post it again please.

[Vicious Parker]

hey, calm down md, it made a believer out of me!

Dark is the absence of light.

cold, the absence of heat.

religion, the absence of reason.

your story is starting to make more and more sense, arutha.

[Puffin]

you know, assuming that we're all slowy changing and adapting as the climate around us changes over the years, wouldn't everyone one on the face of the planet be seeing evolution at work? I mean, the only reason we don't suddenly see a new type of human is simply because evolution, well, takes so much longer than just a few thousand years. so I'd have to say that part of the argument is sort of flawed, especially considering how anyone can go to a museum and see evidence of evolution left behind in such things as fossils....

that and you can feel your brain. it's called a headache. :P

[Arutha]

so wait i post something that presents the other side of the argument (you guys have really just been arguing about different perspectives from the same side) and then i get told that my argument is full of BS and then i'm mocked.....(leaves to never return again.)

[Monkeydog]

That's not your argument, and it's a stupid story.

If you were actually saying something and not posting a very very dumb story than you wouldn't be mocked. But that story is really really just a false argument, if you're even using it.

That's not the other side of the argument, that's just a really bad story that reminds me of that Darwin thing I posted.

[Arutha]

it resembles the argument i make

[Monkeydog]

But that story is flawed, like I said.

It's relying on fallacy, and would never happen in real life unless the professor was completely incompetent. It doesn't prove a thing at all, there's not logic to it at all other than to be a really ignorant story.

I could write a story saying...I don't know...Invisible Yellow Bunnies exist, and say that's my argument. However it doesn't make it any less of a flawed argument, and would probably appear moreso because I would be pulling something totally out of nowhere. Story's don't have to have fact in them, or an actual argument.
That story you posted is complete fallacy, meant for no reason but to appeal to people who believe it, but it is a VERY very ignorant story to anyone else in the world. Just like my Invisible Yellow Bunny story would be, certainly it'd appear right and not ignorant to me, and anyone else who cares to believe it(which I would assume be someone like Chase), but it'd still be a complete fallacy with not backing or TRUE argument or debate going on in it. And thus should not even be considered a true argument to begin with, possibly a basis if I could support it with fact and etc...

I'm tired for typing.
Fin~

[rosedragon]

Religions, Sciences, Gods, Demons, everything in this world is like contradict each others. Just like light vs dark.. good vs bad.. because that's how balance works. Atheists vs religious also part of the balance ^^.

i totally agree with that. the only god you can know for sure is the god that created YOU. therefore the only way to truly worship the real god is to keep gods creation in the best possible way. that means take care of yourself, exercise, excel, and shower damnit! the only way to truly honoring your creator is to honor yourself, for you are the only link you have with the true creator. for all these mainstream religeous types are certain, they could be praying to some giant potatoe somewhere. idk, but if I were god, and my creation was praying towards a potato instead of me, id be pretty pissed, and not to think twice about removing your existence from the cycle.

agree

[Vicious Parker]

But the implication of 'balance' adds yet another level of mysticism. The world simply does not work in that way.