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Wodniws 10 - Grove of Game Making and General Programming - Monkey Productions

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#1 Vicious Parker

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:46 AM

OK peeps, everybody has had a few days now to decide whether or not upgrade to Windows 10. Have you done it? I have. What are your thoughts?

 

Right now I don't know if I consider it that much of an improvement over Windows 8. I know 8 gets a lot of hate, mostly due to the start menu/modern UI, but overall Windows 8 was stable and fast. With a little modification to remove those goofy UI elements, Windows 8 was better than any previous version of Windows, even 7.

 

So far, 10 still appears to be stable and fast, but man are Microsoft being completely silly when it comes to their UI. The new start menu is only a minor improvement over 8's, and that's really only because it no longer takes up the full screen by default. However, the weird alphabet listing of the start menu is, frankly, stupid as hell. What I'm reffering to is that giant letters that indicate which part of the alphebet you're currently looking it. All this does is take up extra space and make the already tiny all programs menu harder to navigate. In this instance, changing the start menu to full screen actually makes sorting through the all programs menu more tolerable, because you can see more of it at a time. This was really poorly thought out. I know you can, and are supposed to, pin your most used programs to both the taskbar and the live tiles area of the start menu, but it's still messy and ugly.

 

Speaking of live tiles, I still don't uderstand their purpose on a PC. Why look at a live tile which shows me just a little bit of information, when I can quickly load the full program, which will display much more information? On a phone they make sense; phones have much smaller screens and have limited multi-tasking. I use widgets on android for this very reason. They're just kind of stupid on the start menu. Combine this with the fact that you can't remove shortcuts to modern UI programs that you will never use, and it's apparent that the new start menu is hardly an improvement at all compared to the Windows 8 start menu.

 

However, I do actually like the look and functionality of some of these new Modern UI apps. Edge, for what it's worth, is a nice looking and fast browser, though I'm still going to use Firefox. The Groove Music app is actually pretty great, I'm going to make it my default music player. Weather and News are both fast and useful. I can't speak for the rest, but I imagine that if I used them, they would be pretty nice.

 

 

 

Just a final thought, if anybody does upgrade but dislikes the start menu as much as I do, consider purchasing Start10 from Stardock software. While I'm sure free alternatives will show up, Start10 (Like its predacessor Start8) is customizable, looks good, doesn't use too many system resources, and doesn't require modifying any system files. They're also a Michigan based software company, so that's pretty cool, I guess.


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The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead.

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#2 Donkeymog

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:15 AM

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I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime...


#3 Donkeymog

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:19 AM

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I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime...


#4 Vicious Parker

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:23 AM

I dunno, man. Linux users should understand that sometimes installing and troubleshooting a new OS can be fun. Well, it's own kind of problem solving style fun.
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The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead.

-Mr. Peanutbutter


#5 lazlo falconi

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 11:05 AM

Let me start by saying: I loved Windows 8 from the very beginning. I loved Windows 8 when it was Windows Phone 7. I think Metro was a great style, huge gorgeous tiles were wonderful. I should also mention that I haven't used the Start Menu since 2006 or so. I just don't think it's a good way to organize... Anything, really. Scratch that, I did start using the Start Menu again when I got Windows 7, but only for search. Press the Windows key and type what I want to launch. It was very similar to dmenu I thought, and I loved it. But that's besdie the point.

Start menu, yeah? Awful. It occured to me one day when I looking for some DLL I was sure I had, and saw that Windows XP still had progman.exe. That's strange, sounds like Program Manager, and sure enough, it was a compatibility layer for it. I did some investigative jiggery-pokery and found that all this did was convert Program Manger groups to Start Menu folders. Does anyone remember that? Installing a game, and instead of going in the Games group (Or folder), it went in it's own group, or later, it went in a folder named for the publisher, then in a sub-folder about the game. And the thing I hated most was that the publishers weren't even self-consistent. And this isn't just games, this is just about everything. Who had folders for Microsoft, Microsoft Office (Containing folders for each office app!) and Microsoft Essentials, and a host of others. Just from Microsoft!

As time went on, some programs got nice, and the installers would ask you where you wanted start menu links to be installed, or even better yet, allowed you to opt out completely, but still, Start Menus were a mess. Why do you need a folder that has a single folder in it containing a single shortcut to a program you use every day? Or even worse, when you use it frequently, but not frequently enough to pin to the top level? Or to put on the desktop? (Or you don't like tonnes of icons littering your desktop?)

So yeah, I've hated the Start Menu for years. I've tried a bunch of different launchers, from docks to hotkeys to this monstrosity I eventually settled on using the quicklaunch bar, and later in Windows 7 the super bar, which was great, and still my primary launcher on Windows. But when Microsoft announced that they were exploring a replacement for the Start Menu, I though, "Damn it's about time." The Start Menu is just an awful design. There aren't two ways about it. It's terrible, and it's even worse from Vista onward where instead of having these nice, readable flyout menus, everything is constrained to a small box that only displays 15 or so items. It makes navigation a nightmare, and an already poor design downright unusable.

The first time I used Windows 8 was during the developer preview. I wasn't as impressed as I wanted to be. There were no apps, so everything launched to the desktop, so why not just keep using the Superbar that's done so well for me for so many years? It was years later that I actually began using the Start screen. Last year, in fact, when I got a Surface, and realized that the superbar just wouldn't work with my fat sausages. So I started using the Start Screen and thought it was fine. Not great, not terrible, but it worked and it worked well. I could easily get to my most used apps, and if those weren't there, I could just start typing (on my PC) or swipe up to find a beautiful full screen list of all installed applications, arranged alphabetically and all on the top level, but still separated to keep all the installers with their programs and suites like Office and Adobe together. It was great, if a little clumsy. And once I stared using the Start Screen as secondary storage for programs I don't use enough to warrant being on the Superbar, I thought it was great. A dashboard of my second most used apps. Wonderful!

So that was a lot of how to do to get to the point: I liked Windows 8's UI. There were some silly things, espeically when you first start using it and it plops a huge arrow on the side of the screen, asking you to swipe even though you don't have a touch screen. But in general, it was great. Windows 8 was a huge speed increase over Windows 7 on the same (already three or four year old) hardware, and things were generally good. It took a minute to find where some things had moved to, but once I was used to it, I found it just as usable as Windows 7, plus the window decorations were prettier, the search was improved, and in general, things were just better. I'm still of the opinion that anyone who feels negatively about Windows 8 also thinks that Macs are just for designers, or that the Internet and the Web are the same thing. They will probably have trouble through their lives since they have difficulty trying new things.

So now on to the topic. Windows 10, yeah? So let's look at the Start Menu. To be honest, I haven't used it that much. Like, at all. I'm just not that kind of person. I'm glad the right-click menu is the same, because that's how I shut down my computer. I turned off pretty much everything in the start menu, actually. I don't even remember what used to be there above Documents. But I'll tell you this, clicking All Programs and having it open in this dinky-ass sub-pane was unacceptable. I switched to full screen mode immediately, and was very surprised to find that even in this mode, the apps are still restricted to a single extremely narrow pane on the left side of the screen. Regardless of how you feel about the Start Menu you must admit this is not an optimal solution. 75% of the screen is wasted when what I want is quick access to a program that I want to run. I want to be able to see what is available, not to scroll. This is my main gripe with Windows 10. If there is a fix for this, please, please let me know. Hopefully Microsoft sees the error of their ways and fixes this, because it's just not okay.

But otherwise, do I like Windows 10? Yes. Yes very much. The animations for the Start Menu and jumplists are a nice touch, but not distracting. The window decorations are pretty nice, though I think I preferred the Windows 8 versions, and I definitely miss being able to set the color of title bars. I like that they got rid of the 10 pixel window borders though. That was extremely unnecessary. I haven't used Cortana yet, because I don't want to tie my microsoft account into Windows--mostly because I don't want to choose a weaker password for that account, and don't want to have a long password to unlock my computer.

I like the notifications area--sort of. I need some more programs to start making use of it, but right now I have the Windows Mail app set up to check my email, even though I still use webmail, it's nice to get a toaster when I get new email. My only problem is that deleting email doesn't remove the notification like it does in Android, but that might be preferable, I sometimes loose Android notifactions I wanted to see because I looked at something and it thought I was acknowledging the notification. I like how the new Superbar handles running apps, even though it reminds me a lot of how OS X does things, it's looks very pretty, for lack of a better word.

I like being able to tap the Windows key and check the weather, though. That's cute and I'll probably keep that there, but most of the live tiles are worthless to me and I'll probably clean almost all of them out soon. Actually, damn I knew Windows 10 reinstalled a bunch of the Windows 8 apps I never used, which was mildly annoying, but I just noticed that it installed Candy Crush Saga without my consent!

While I'm on the topic,

Combine this with the fact that you can't remove shortcuts to modern UI programs that you will never use,


What do you mean? I got rid of everything on the Start menu.

As for the apps... Well, I tried the photos app first, because I'm kind of annoyed with some things Picasa has been doing lately, and found it terrible. It's just weird. Arrow keys sometimes don't cycle through images, there's no "Actual Size" button, pressing left or right on my scroll wheel goes the opposite direction (I think this is trying to mimic swipe for some reason?) and the UI is kind of ugly. Same with the Videos app. I thought it would be nice if I could replace VLC with a native app, but it was just no good. I only used it once, though, so your mileage may vary.

Windows Explorer is really good. 8's was already a huge improvement over 7, and 10 fine tunes it even more, including recently accessed folders under your pinned folders.

The game recording feature seems cool, but my video card is unsupported. Blah.

So that's my thoughts. And, as a final aside to match Tony's, if you don't like the start menu:
Spoiler

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samussig_zpsf75ec25d.png


Or, to put it more politely, "Neener neener."


-all my friends that came with are drinking out in the car
--forever alone
+\- joke's on them i'm too drunk to drive


#6 Donkeymog

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 09:22 PM

I dunno, man. Linux users should understand that sometimes installing and troubleshooting a new OS can be fun. Well, it's own kind of problem solving style fun.


Yeah, man. Didn't mean to be a patronising dick. Just trying to make lulz.

It's funny, usually the joy of installing a new OS is the argument Linux users make.
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I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime...


#7 matrim

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 10:30 PM

Upgraded to Win10 yestarday.

Well so far I can say it has the advantages of windows 8.1 but in a more compact form.

 

The start menu is faster since it doesn't take up the full screen, though I more or less never browse the start menu, I hit the winkey and type what I need.

Apps has also been "fixed" by that I mean they now run as actuall windows applications, so no more forced fullscreen, they can however be maximized to take up the full screen like in windows 8.

 

Most of the edge menus have been removed in windows 10, so no more popup when sliding your mouse close to edges of your screen.

 

The icons on the taskbar is smaller while the minitaskbar icons have been enlarged (this acuses pixelization on some icons since they are only made in 32x32 pixles.

 

Menus and settings boxes has had a facelift to something between the old UI windows and the WinForm versions, making it look a bit more modern.

 

All'n'all I'd say it's a good upgrade.

 

Only Issue I've had (and I havn't found a single thread from anyone else that has this) is that when I boot up, I can't click on items loaded in edge (new browser) this includes startmenu items.

I have to logout, and log back in after boot to get this to work.


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-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Yes private, thats exactly it. War's over, we won.
Turns out you're the big hero and we're gonna hold a parade in your honor.
I get to drive the float, and Simmons here IS IN CHARGE OF CONFETTI!!!
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#8 kspr

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 07:21 AM

upgrade your hardware first


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#9 lazlo falconi

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:22 AM

I don't think it works like that.

I feel like it takes longer to log in, but I never timed it on Windows 8, so I have no data to back this up. But it feels like it takes longer. Anyone else feel the same?
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samussig_zpsf75ec25d.png


Or, to put it more politely, "Neener neener."


-all my friends that came with are drinking out in the car
--forever alone
+\- joke's on them i'm too drunk to drive


#10 Vicious Parker

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 09:33 AM

I've actually already reinstalled Windows 10 without issue. Something there is wrong.

And I can't comment on log on time, lazlo. I have an SSD, so both 8 and 10 load lightning fast..
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The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead.

-Mr. Peanutbutter


#11 Monkeydog

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 10:06 AM

Windows 10 feels a bit quicker to me.

 

But like VP, I have an SSD. Both 8/10 take like 5 seconds to load (and that's really just the BIOS).


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