29 replies to this topic

[Donkeymog]

So my programming guru is my brother. I remember him showing me PHP back before PHP even handled OOP correctly.

 

And so a bit over a year ago when it dawned on me that I need to learn how to program websites PHP was the only choice I considered. And now that I have a basic grasp of how to use it correctly and have some experience with it I want to explore some other options.

 

My brother recommends just building everything in Javascript. He tells me that it's come a long way and that it's actually really good now.

 

But I tend to avoid javascript, I have an inherent and irrational distrust of javascript. Should I sit down and overcome this?

[Monkeydog]

Yep.

 

I don't really like Javascript though. I know Hyperlisk will come here and tell me how wrong I am but it just doesn't jive with me. 

 

But! It's extremely useful, and I use it a lot now. Particularly, if nothing else, look into jQuery. All you need to know is basic Javascript and you can handle jQuery, which is extremely useful and far more my kind of dance.

 

There's other stuff that's good to look into too, if you actually are going to go full steam ahead with Javascript, like node.JS and AngularJS. Also AJAX calls and JSON can be extremely useful based on what you're going to do.

 

Also I assume Hyperlisk will come look at this topic and post about how great Javascript is and he's far more qualified to say stuff about it than I am.

[kspr]

can he invent java that doesn't need to be updated all the time?

[Donkeymog]

Javascript ≠ Java.

[Glaciermage]

JavaScript doesn't always work properly (or at least as conveniently as you'd like it to) on mobile devices. Something to at least consider since so many people peruse the internet on their phone. That's why for the time being, I personally prefer php and css to JavaScript. But JavaScript definitely has it's uses.

[kspr]

well then why not invent something totally new to do all the things other scripts can't do? 

[Donkeymog]

Shit, why hasn't anybody thought of that?

 

I am totally going to do that right now. Check back in a couple of hours, I should have something ready to show.

[Donkeymog]

Have yous got mad Javascript skillz, Glace?

[Glaciermage]

Not really. Because I stick more to php I am less familiar with all things JavaScript. Monkeydog and hyperlisk are our resident JavaScript gurus I do believe.

[Hyperlisk]

/> Yep.
 
I don't really like Javascript though. I know Hyperlisk will come here and tell me how wrong I am but it just doesn't jive with me. 
 
But! It's extremely useful, and I use it a lot now. Particularly, if nothing else, look into jQuery. All you need to know is basic Javascript and you can handle jQuery, which is extremely useful and far more my kind of dance.
 
There's other stuff that's good to look into too, if you actually are going to go full steam ahead with Javascript, like node.JS and AngularJS. Also AJAX calls and JSON can be extremely useful based on what you're going to do.
 
Also I assume Hyperlisk will come look at this topic and post about how great Javascript is and he's far more qualified to say stuff about it than I am.

Pretty much this. JavaScript was the first language I learned, before even mastering HTML. It's certainly good to know, though browser differences suck. If you want to build something compatible with a lot of browsers, use jQuery like Monkey said. AngularJS is an up-and-coming star. I would say it takes intermediate JavaScript proficiency at the least though.

[lazlo falconi]

JQuery is pretty cool. I don't know a lot about it but pretty much everything I didn't know how to do in PHP, when looking it up, I've found a JQuery answer to.

[Monkeydog]

PHP is great and all, but there is certainly a lot of things people default to using server side things that doing client side would be a lot better. Especially with how robust it's becoming, it really could just replace stuff people regulate to PHP.

[lazlo falconi]

The nice thing about doing it on the server is that you know it'll at least be served up right to every client. Believe it or not, there still are people out there using Internet Explorer 6. Should they be allowed to use the web? Probably not, but they're still there.

[Monkeydog]

As long as you're writing correct code cross platform compatibility isn't really a big problem when it comes to IE. The problem is how the DOM is created, which is a much bigger problem with CSS and doing precise things with Javascript. 

[Monkeydog]

http://www.leasewebl...ing-javascript/

 

Interesting read.

[Donkeymog]

But you guys just persuaded me Javascript is the future and now I'm all confused.

[Monkeydog]

I don't really agree with that article, it's just interesting, since not everything in there is wrong. It's just that there's a lot of points that it made that are just wrong. Like server side being able to do everything client side can, which it can't. You can try and replicate a lot with CSS3 but CSS can't be dynamic without Javascript and CSS3 certainly isn't fully supported/widely supported correctly.

 

I think it's just finding the balance on what you should use Javascript for and what you should regulate to the server. Personally, I don't think the server should do much after the DOM is loaded, and everything after the fact should be relegated to Javascript. And I don't really think Javascript should be a replacement to PHP/Python/Perl/whatever. 

 

Plus how are you supposed to play with canvas without Javascript?

[Donkeymog]

Chardog uses Ember. It's super effective!

 

I've been waiting to use that line for days and admit this context makes very little sense. But if I waited and waited for you to actually burn me in some thread then we'd be waiting for ever, because we both know nobody can burn this.

[Donkeymog]

In case you're a complete Pokemon newb (which I strongly suspect) the small text was Beanasaur using Facade (TM42).

 

I'll stop derailing this thread now.

[Hyperlisk]

Yeah, that article is crazy. Certainly don't agree with it. I agree with Monkey though, you just have to know when to use JavaScript, really.